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Author Topic: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection  (Read 22706 times)

Deathlike2

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2012, 07:19:46 PM »
I forgot to mention that the multi-party finale in the original would've made tons more sense when you get obsolete item drops from the Lamia and Steel Golem...

TBH, the GBA port left a sour taste in my mouth.. and I don't mean the fact that it has a shitload of bugs, but the story "upgrades" through the trials were bad at best.

Then again, FF4's overall story isn't really that great to begin with, so some may argue that whatever they did with the DS port would address some of it.

I'm going through the PSP port and see if it improves, but it's only slightly better than the GBA port so far (completed the Antlion event).

 :edit:
What there really needs to be is like a 50-floor dungeon (like the Lunar Ruins, with some semi-randomized stuff, since the thing should be a pseudo-maze) that is actually a part of the Tower of Babil (trying to fill in the section that was never completed behind the Crystal Room in the tower)... possibly just leading up to the remains of the Tower of Zot or the remains of the Giant of Babil...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 07:53:19 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Paladin

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2012, 07:55:31 PM »
Yeah, the PSP game is virtually the same as the GBA one.

You brought up a good point; I too found the lunar labyrinth dungeon to be a bit of a let down there wasn't much new story exposition. It was just a bunch of mini games really. The strongest "trial" was probably Kain's in terms of anything interesting to add to the story...or maybe Rydia. And then ZeromusEG at the end?...meh...

And...the story overall yeah...I've discussed with a couple of other FF4 fans our conspiracy theory that FF4 was originally a sequel to the original FF2. And there are some idiosyncrasies if you nit-pick through the 設定資教編 (Settei Shiryou Hen) a.k.a "Data Establishment Book" and other Japanese source stuff.  But some of it is somewhat evident in the game itself, right down to the original box art featuring Kain prominently between "Final" and "Fantasy" when the story so closely revolves around Cecil.... Well anyway I could go off the deep end on that topic but long story short the overall game story that was eventually crafted seems hacked together and sloppy in many places whether in Japanese or English.

I think that's why there was a backlash against the DS game which attempted to fill in some blanks. The original hard core fans on both sides of the Pacific had already fan-fictionalized the thing in their minds to fill in the blanks and hackneyed parts. Having official canon override 15+ years of "fill in the blank" led to some sour grapes.  I mean in some respects the PSP game might almost be a concession to the fans that the DS game didn't happen and here's the official return to the original game. Kinda like how Paramount pretty much had to follow up Star Trek V with something, anything better to appease the frustrated Trekkies of the world.

Ultimately for me I'm willing to admit that I think the reality is that because it was my first "big" RPG video game when I was a little kid it holds more a high place for me as nostalgia rather than being the greatest fantasy game story out there.

Deathlike2

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2012, 08:30:08 PM »
I kinda want to see what could have been... in a semi-lame Sci-Fi ish temporal disturbance. That would allow a different outtake of what happened in the game... like explore what was originally intended (bond's beta-based image of the game is the inspiration for this) and play it differently. It would be kinda like a TAY-ish experience, but you would be able to reboot and/or retell a different story (and gameplay, in terms of rebalancing).

It bothered be a bit when they did the trials... you couldn't really rebalance the game with a freaking Holy sword that casts Holy... (or a lance that casts Tornado)... it's mindnumbingly bad and wrong.

I would've wanted to see though how Rydia got her other summons... her trial is a lame existence of trying to complete the summon fights (well, the taming of the Chocobo would've been cool too).
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Deathlike2

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2013, 12:04:47 AM »
OK, having played TAY in full.. I have something to say (in a more educated way anyways).

I think that compared to the original game, it's on par with the type of development of the original... which that is, it's good enough, but there's some serious plotholes or issues and some under-development.

For instance, in FF4, Rosa is underdeveloped (and I don't mean boobies) in terms of character. Other than that she cares for Cecil, she's kinda one-dimensional... unlike Rydia. In TAY, we continue the same theme, except she's covered up like she's gotten really old (she's like twice her age in the TAY storyline)... and Rydia shows everything off (unmarried, then again, Edge must be taking some long route or Rydia is really playing hard to get). Did I miss something there?

How does Shiva manage to kill the Dark Elf? Her special attack is far inferior to the Particle Bomb band (or Bio for that matter), yet the Dark Elf is known to have a wicked high magic defense... WHAT THE HELL?

Then again, does anyone expect Luca's Dolls to say anything worthwhile? I guess being the reincarnation of Chuckie and his bride is good enough... although IMO they are truly clones of Palom and Porom if they were made super crack fighters (which they are).

There's issues of balance for that matter... why make Cid really obsolete? He's simply damn slow and his special isn't even boss-friendly... why even bother with the moon phases at that point?

Calca's Jive skill is obsolete by the time you can actually use the dolls.. then again, they are likely underleveled compared to the rest of the characters. If only Brina's Dance would produce more favorable results (or at least, controllable results)...

Harley is useless, from both a story and character standpoint. First off, making her not a Blue Mage makes her worthless... plus it's the only time where I find Gil Toss to be powered by INT (seriously, it is) outside of STR and AGI. I don't get it. She's gotta be stealing money away from Edward's Kingdom... it shouldn't be that easily possible to go bankrupt the way they do. Maybe Edward buys extravagant gifts...  but even then, Harley's useless where it matters most... on the battlefield. Edward is an upgrade to Harley... and that's not saying much (the only useful band is Feast of the Land).

For characters that already have character... they got more development.. like Palom and Porom (to some degree), but Ceodore is a disgrace. At least Kain salvages this as that character development is at least a reasonable plotted course...

In the end, it's more of the same... and the same shit that was there before is still there, more shit. It's still enjoyable by the game's relative stands and I think the band system is an improvement given what there is to work with, and in some ways, makes it enjoyable (do Ice Crush enough, and you'll laugh). Although, I cannot explain the Weapon in Progress band nor the Rapid Fire band. I don't really see the connection. Although, with the spying ninjas, you can actually see logically created bands based off who they spied which are actually very good despite the strangeness of them at times.

The moon phases... allows for some interesting stuff, but in their own ways can be annoying. They only matter when you want to dish damage...

I'll say more when it comes to it, but ultimately it's more of the same, and fighting monsters that were easily kicked in the ass in the original is kinda lame (at least, make it interesting). The FF1A-like add-on monsters are not really that interesting to me and neither are the superbosses, other than kicking their ass and then some (well, the only boss that was a true challenge was Nova Dragon aka Shinryu).
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2013, 12:59:16 PM »
They imply Rydia's been living in the Feymarch again too, so shouldn't she be, uh, dead, now? I think Rydia had the worst characterization in this, she acts like a kid looking for acceptance through her entire tale. She's somehow less mature than she was in the original.

My biggest gripe with TAY has to do with it recycling content from the original game. I don't have any problem with the reused monsters or maps or equipment, because having those around grounds it as being a part of FF4's world, but the parts of it that follow the original plot identically are ridiculous. Really, Ceodore and the Hooded Man escape Baron through Mist, get attacked by Baron's soldiers in Kaipo, fight an Octomammoth in the Watery Pass...? It's stupid and lazy. It doesn't help that we get to do the same recycled dungeons multiple times over the course of the tales.

I never really got into the Bands. I played the game when it was brand new and avoided looking anything up about it, so if I didn't figure them out myself I didn't know about them. For the ones I did figure out, I rarely used them, just playing it like it was normal FF4 instead.

Deathlike2

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2013, 01:16:40 PM »
They imply Rydia's been living in the Feymarch again too, so shouldn't she be, uh, dead, now? I think Rydia had the worst characterization in this, she acts like a kid looking for acceptance through her entire tale. She's somehow less mature than she was in the original.

Well, there are issues with that. Growing up suddenly doesn't mean you won't have outstanding issues, like being alone (no family, no other summoners). Just because people seem to be mature for their age, doesn't mean they seemingly lose such deficiencies in their character. However, it's almost like the conclusion Porom comes to that she's "lost" w/o Palom.


Quote
My biggest gripe with TAY has to do with it recycling content from the original game. I don't have any problem with the reused monsters or maps or equipment, because having those around grounds it as being a part of FF4's world, but the parts of it that follow the original plot identically are ridiculous. Really, Ceodore and the Hooded Man escape Baron through Mist, get attacked by Baron's soldiers in Kaipo, fight an Octomammoth in the Watery Pass...? It's stupid and lazy. It doesn't help that we get to do the same recycled dungeons multiple times over the course of the tales.

I guess the only "new" thing the tunneler and the extended Mist Cave... but that is FF6's Locke mission in a nutshell. I think the more important part is the development between the two characters... much less the events that surround them.

Quote
I never really got into the Bands. I played the game when it was brand new and avoided looking anything up about it, so if I didn't figure them out myself I didn't know about them. For the ones I did figure out, I rarely used them, just playing it like it was normal FF4 instead.

Considering the bands provides certain benefits... maybe it's worthwhile actively pursing it. On the other hand, it makes the game much much easier.
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2013, 05:10:17 PM »
I guess the only "new" thing the tunneler and the extended Mist Cave... but that is FF6's Locke mission in a nutshell. I think the more important part is the development between the two characters... much less the events that surround them.

No, video games don't get to work this way.  I'm playing through the same damn content I did in the original with a few new lines of dialogue, no amount of characterization that happens during that changes anything. Locke's scenario was entirely different; they reused the locations, but with entirely new dialogue and events. After Years just consistently takes the lazy route throughout most of the game.

Deathlike2

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2013, 05:17:48 PM »
I guess the only "new" thing the tunneler and the extended Mist Cave... but that is FF6's Locke mission in a nutshell. I think the more important part is the development between the two characters... much less the events that surround them.

No, video games don't get to work this way.  I'm playing through the same damn content I did in the original with a few new lines of dialogue, no amount of characterization that happens during that changes anything. Locke's scenario was entirely different; they reused the locations, but with entirely new dialogue and events. After Years just consistently takes the lazy route throughout most of the game.

Sure, I've already seen the flashbacks (would be more relevant in the Wii port, not so much in the PSP port) and there is way too much reuse. The best you can do is really "polish the turd" and I'm not entirely surprised at this reaction. It could have been better by far.

Familiarity does breed discontent.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2013, 01:05:39 AM »
I would like to say... redoing the Fabul battle event was stupid... because the group you use is way stronger than the original...

At least change the formations a bit... and make it more interesting....
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Final Fantasy IV Complete Collection
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2013, 03:19:52 PM »
Or write new events entirely. It's not that hard. All of these "homages" to the original are incredibly :lame: