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Jorgur

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Wiki discussion
« on: March 01, 2015, 05:23:58 AM »
Slick Productions wiki:
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/Main_Page

This topic is for discussion regarding Final Fantasy V material in the wiki.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 07:26:17 AM by Jorgur »
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samurai goroh

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 10:49:41 AM »
That's something I wanted to discuss about the wiki (You probably prefer to split the topic, if you feel is needed. I actually want to have a page to discuss about managing the wiki somewhere in the forum though).

It seems we use FFV and FF5 in links. I think we should standardize them to V since that's the real name of the game (although we all know V = 5 in roman numeral). I read that you can redirect them, but I haven't tried that (and I cannot delete pages as far as I know, so I don't want to create dead pages).


So, in the case of the bug, yes I should had named in short as agreed, but it should have FFV in the link:
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FFV_Bug:Gilgamesh_may_not_appear_versus_Necrophobe

I still feel that having "FFV_Bug:" at the beginning of the link is a bit unnecessary and bad practice in a wiki. I believe we all are newbs in doing wikis, but I'm sure there's a way to label the pages in order to have shorter links and still know which game they are related to (like labeling or categorizing pages).

I tried the "Category" property, but I kind of dislike how the links are presented (Probably trying to label everything related to Final Fantasy V as such wasn't such a great idea, who knows...):
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/Category:Final_Fantasy_V

And, these are the categories I've created:
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/Special:Categories

I wanted to create a NavBox, but wasn't successful. This is the box that usually have important links. In our case I wanted to have links for bugs, patches & documents.

And for this reason, I decided to hold on on creating more pages...
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Jorgur

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 07:51:21 AM »
Quote from: samurai goroh on March 01, 2015, 10:49:41 AM
It seems we use FFV and FF5 in links. I think we should standardize them to V since that's the real name of the game (although we all know V = 5 in roman numeral). I read that you can redirect them, but I haven't tried that (and I cannot delete pages as far as I know, so I don't want to create dead pages).
I always use "Final Fantasy V" when space is plentyful and "FF5" when space is sparse. There is a good reason why I use "FF5" and not "FFV". "FFV" can be misunderstood as something else. I often have to look closely to make sure it is FFV (not FFIV, FFVI, FMV, etc.), especially in URLs and other places where the font size is small. This is why I decided to use "FF5" instead, which pretty much cannot be misunderstood. Look at the examples below:

http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Bug:Gilgamesh_may_not_appear_versus_Necrophobe
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FFV_Bug:Gilgamesh_may_not_appear_versus_Necrophobe

Which one is easier to read? I cannot read the second link without looking closely to make sure there is no "I" in between the "F" and "V". I know "FF5" is not 100% correct naming, but I think the practical benefits are more important.

Quote from: samurai goroh on March 01, 2015, 10:49:41 AM
I still feel that having "FFV_Bug:" at the beginning of the link is a bit unnecessary and bad practice in a wiki. I believe we all are newbs in doing wikis, but I'm sure there's a way to label the pages in order to have shorter links and still know which game they are related to (like labeling or categorizing pages).
Are you suggesting this?
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/Gilgamesh_may_not_appear_versus_Necrophobe

There are two issues with that. Firstly, when you see this link on a website somewhere you will have no idea what this page is about. Secondly, without a namespace there might be conflicts when two pages have the same name. I'm all for labelling pages, but it is my belief that the URL should give you a basic idea what it refers to.
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samurai goroh

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 09:40:32 AM »
I would fully agree with you, if only it were a normal site.

The way I see wikis is that you can use plenty of tools like tags, labels, footer, etc. to differentiate pages (and also use disambiguation if pages contains the same word). The problem with ours is that we currently don't have that infrastructure. As of how we are now, is understandable to have pages separate with the help of the link, but there will be a problem as the wiki grows (mainly maintaining and updating it).

I don't know what's the scope for the wiki, so I have no idea how big will some day will be. But I believe that we should create it since the beginning with a good planning, that way it will have a good look and feel and maintaining it will be easier.

The only problem I see now is that we don't have any wiki expert, so we'll have to learn & that'll take some time, but it'll be worthy...
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Jorgur

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 10:05:45 AM »
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samurai goroh

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 08:53:43 PM »
What I got from reading that is to put what we have here in the wiki and have as model datacrystal.

I gave up with creating a navbox as it should be (I still believe it needs to be installed in the first place, but really the information around that is poor).

Anyways, I was finally able to create something decent based of some tables datacrystal has:
Template:Footer

With this, I then created a template for Final Fantasy V, filling the information:
Template:Final_Fantasy_V

Maybe it still needs some tweaking, but it can be used right now on every page related to Final Fantasy V, so you can easily jump to the main links. Here's an example:
Final_Fantasy_V_Hacking

Any comments?
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Jorgur

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 08:03:37 AM »
When I cooked up the basics for the wiki, I had some simple principles in mind. First of all, we must not be Data Crystal. It is my belief that we cannot compete directly with DC, because their userbase is far greater than ours. If you want a site like DC, you can use that site instead. What I think we need to do is differentiate ourselves from DC somehow.

DC tries to collect some basic information on all games. As stated by Lenophis, the scope of our wiki is to document the fine details of just a small handful of games (although the number might grow over time). Since the scope of our site is different we will naturally do things differently.

Secondly, we must remember that not everyone is a charity worker. It is difficult to motivate people to contribute to hivemind projects like Wikipedia and Data Crystal (especially low traffic sites). At the very least, we should allow contributors to have two things: Artistic freedom and credit for their work. This is why I invented the personal namespace for pages.

Quote from: samurai goroh on March 02, 2015, 08:53:43 PM
Maybe it still needs some tweaking, but it can be used right now on every page related to Final Fantasy V, so you can easily jump to the main links. Here's an example:
Final_Fantasy_V_Hacking

Any comments?
I'm not entirely sure what this is supposed to do. It seems a bit redundant since you can use the Main Page, Categories and search to get where you want.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 09:58:34 AM by Jorgur »
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samurai goroh

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2015, 11:14:15 AM »
I was wondering if you have though of creating pages with list of tables, like for example the Items with their corresponding ID, battlegrounds, monsters, rooms, etc. That way you can always refer to it by linking them when needed.

For example, this is the list of tables I have in a LUA script. I don't use them all at the moment, but they have their usefulness...:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3c0L5Unm8PGV3cxQTlpdDVOUlE/view?usp=sharing_eid

So for example, the page http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/Table:Attack_Type should contain a table with all possible attack types:
  • 01 - Blue
  • 02 - White
  • 04 - Black
  • 08 - Dimen
  • 10 - Summon
  • 20 - Song
  • 40 - Aerial
  • 80 - Physical

The page http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/Table:Battleground should contain a table with all possible battlegrounds:
  • 00 - Overworld Grasslands (Day)
  • 01 - Overworld Forest
  • 02 - Overworld Desert
  • 03 - Overworld Marshlands
  • 04 - Overworld Beach
  • 05 - Shipwreck Graveyard
  • 06 - Cave
  • 07 - Waterfall Cave
  • 08 - Flying Deck
  • 09 - Architecture Outside
  • 0A - Semi-overgrown Ruins
  • 0B - Inhabitated Castle
  • 0C - Bridge
  • 0D - Library
  • 0E - *Armory Ship
  • 0F - Great Forest
  • 10 - Mountain Slopes
  • 11 - Pyramids
  • 12 - Lonka Ruins - Outside
  • 13 - Roots
  • 14 - Exdeath Castle
  • 15 - Shipwreck (Day)
  • 16 - Inside Fire-Powered Ship
  • 17 - Crystal Void
  • 18 - Lonka Ruins - Inside
  • 19 - Shipwreck (Dusk)
  • 1A - Burning Castle
  • 1B - Phoenix Tower Wall
  • 1C - Void
  • 1D - Sunken Castle
  • 1E - Desert (Sandworm)
  • 1F - Distorted Space
  • 20 - Bridge (Void)
  • 21 - Overworld Grasslands (Dusk)


I could put the effort on creating them, just would need to stablish how the links should be named and that's it.
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Jorgur

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2015, 08:14:27 AM »
The URL should probably indicate what game the page is for, to avoid name conflicts with potential pages for other games such as FF4. I still stand by my preference of FF5 over FFV, but I am open for discussion.

Some examples:
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/Table:FF5_Attack_Type
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Table:Attack_Type
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Attack_Type_Table
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5:Attack_Type_Table
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samurai goroh

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2015, 10:40:22 AM »
Right (*Still forgets to add game to link*)

GAME_Table:NameOfTable seems to me the best way to go. (In this case FF5_Table:Attack_Type, FF5_Table:Background, FF5_Table:Enemy, etc). I'll be working on them as needed, thanks Jorgur.
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samurai goroh

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About patch section
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2015, 11:42:40 AM »
I was wondering something about the patches section on the wiki. Some have just the page and a quick description of what they are, but there is no link associated to download them. Some others doesn't have even a page created for them.

What I wonder is if we're going to host all patches and have access to download them or at least link to them. I know some patches are hosted on romhacking, like the Ancient Cave to name one...

Also I was thinking if the patches should be categorized like translations, bug fixing, spinoffs, etc...
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Jorgur

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2015, 01:04:20 PM »
Quote from: samurai goroh on March 24, 2015, 11:42:40 AM
I was wondering something about the patches section on the wiki. Some have just the page and a quick description of what they are, but there is no link associated to download them. Some others doesn't have even a page created for them.

What I wonder is if we're going to host all patches and have access to download them or at least link to them. I know some patches are hosted on romhacking, like the Ancient Cave to name one...
From what Lenophis told me, we are supposed to host most of the material ourselves, including patches. The problem is, he has not yet implemented a system to upload files for the wiki to use. For now, we can upload patches as forum attachments somewhere and link to them in the wiki.

If you want to add more pages or more detail to the pages, go ahead and do that. As of now there is no uniform way to do it but I'm sure that will change over time.

Quote from: samurai goroh on March 24, 2015, 11:42:40 AM
Also I was thinking if the patches should be categorized like translations, bug fixing, spinoffs, etc...
I don't think that's neccessary. If we did that, we wouldn't be able to see the authors of the patches without clicking them, and there is just a handful of patches anyway. I realize it would be practical for new users to find what they want, but that's what Romhacking.net is for. This site is more targeted toward experienced users who are primarily interested in information.
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samurai goroh

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 05:22:58 PM »
Guess showing who did it on the top of the page is not doable with the proposition I made, but you can still mention who made the patch prior to the name of the patch. I'll think on some layouts and post them on the discussion part.

As for just adding information and creating the pages that are still missing, I'll do them later.
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Jorgur

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 09:24:04 AM »
With the increased number of patches, it seems that sorting them by category is becoming more neccessary. Ideas for categories? How about:
- Translation
- Bug fix
- Artistic
- Gameplay
- Mechanical
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Squall

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Re: Wiki discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2016, 01:36:38 AM »
I would say - just sort them alphabetically or historically (by date of release)
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