( $2 $0 $0 $1 ) If Attacked by Tellah Battle Message $12 Cast Dummy ($AE)
This script is parsed wrong, but here's the jist of what it is supposed to do:
Battle Script:
While targeting Cecil, display message 0xE and attack him. Display message 0xF, then attack with Kick. While targeting Cecil, display message 0x10 and attack him. Display message 0x11, then attack with Kick. Repeat sequence
Counter Script:
When Cecil deals physical damage, there is a random chance to execute the following script... which is to display message 0x12 and end the battle (by using spell 0xAE).
Note the bold.. this is never executed on a normal run. There's a simple reason. This was intended for Dark Knight Cecil.. not Paladin Cecil as the battle script is never normally executed. However, there's a lot more happening here than meets the eye.
1) Yang appears to attack with one of Cecil's Dark Blades. Really, I'm not kidding.
2) The random battle ending falls along the same lines as the random Lightning killing Odin sequence. There's a low chance of it occuring (less than 10% I suspect). Note that this sequence expects Paladin Cecil's physical attacks as part of it.. which is ironic, given the battle script was meant to focus on Dark Knight Cecil.
Here are some random thoughts and opinions to this..
1) This was intended to be part of some auto-battle sequence. It was never finished since Yang attacks Cecil as part of the battle script.
2) Characters attacking with a weapon as an enemy was something never truly finished. Obviously Yang attacking with Cecil's Dark Blades was never meant to happen. Some hacking to change this would be interesting, but it would need a lot more research. This is why this section was never executed.. it would looked rather fucked up.
3) Yang was meant to be encountered in a different situation.. which is not what the current finished product happens to be. For all I know, you were meant to battle him and he meant to attack Cecil intentionally. Perhaps the demo picture with Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Yang, Rosa, and Young Rydia may have had its origins be validated.
From the original thread (which will be killed in due time) - http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=929937&topic=42923762
Quote
i have a copy of the original final fantasy 4j that i bought a few years ago, kind of on a whim. this being the most active ff2/ff4 forum, i thought it may be the best place to ask.
let me post the pictures: http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/bond697/photo.jpg http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/bond697/photo2.jpg
now, they're blurry because i took them with my iphone(sadly, no scanner).
let me explain what is going on in case you can't make them out. they are of the same image on the original ff4j box. i can't remember the monsters' names, but i can describe them. one is a green "gargoyle" with wings, and there are 2 "birds", maybe "eagles"? as i said, i can't recall the names. anyway, the odd part is that they're fighting in the castle setting, like when you defend the castle with yang, edward/gilbert, and cecil. in the picture, it seems that rydia is casting fire(2?) on an eagle creature. here is your party with their hp levels:
i don't think that this scenario happens at all in the game. if it does, could someone please let me know where? it's a neat little look at what might have been, i suppose.
i've looked through the manual, but haven't found any other out of the ordinary pics like this. if i can get access to a scanner, i'll get a better couple of pictures.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Phoenix on June 02, 2008, 07:27:21 AM
Quote
2) The random battle ending falls along the same lines as the random Lightning killing Odin sequence. There's a low chance of it occuring (less than 10% I suspect). Note that this sequence expects Paladin Cecil's physical attacks as part of it.. which is ironic, given the battle script was meant to focus on Dark Knight Cecil.
If you understand the reaction script, it works 100% of the time. The hex data for the last part of Yang's battle script is F481. F4 to F7 set what I call "condition flags" and "reflex flags." (I don't know if there's any other term . . . I didn't find any information on these bytes, and have only just worked it out for myself last week.) F481 sets condition flag 01. The mystery ($2 $0 $0 $1) that is in the editor means "if condition flag 01 is set". Thus, Yang's reaction script is "If condition flag 01 is set and attacked by Paladin Cecil: show battle message 0x12 and cast 0xAE." So the attack sequence needs to be played out once, condition flag 01 is set, and then as soon as Paladin Cecil attacks after that, Yang says, "Ouch!" and the battle is over.
My guess is that Odin's battle follows these lines, though I haven't looked into his script myself yet. I'll take a look when I have time.
Quote
1) Yang appears to attack with one of Cecil's Dark Blades. Really, I'm not kidding. 2) Characters attacking with a weapon as an enemy was something never truly finished. Obviously Yang attacking with Cecil's Dark Blades was never meant to happen. Some hacking to change this would be interesting, but it would need a lot more research. This is why this section was never executed.. it would looked rather fucked up.
It could be that the sword was intentional. Yang was traveling with Baron Soldiers, after all, and wasn't himself. I'll have to see if I can change the weapon graphics for that in my own hack, so I'll post if I can find anything on it.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 07:43:09 AM
2) The random battle ending falls along the same lines as the random Lightning killing Odin sequence. There's a low chance of it occuring (less than 10% I suspect). Note that this sequence expects Paladin Cecil's physical attacks as part of it.. which is ironic, given the battle script was meant to focus on Dark Knight Cecil.
If you understand the reaction script, it works 100% of the time. The hex data for the last part of Yang's battle script is F481. F4 to F7 set what I call "condition flags" and "reflex flags." (I don't know if there's any other term . . . I didn't find any information on these bytes, and have only just worked it out for myself last week.) F481 sets condition flag 01. The mystery ($2 $0 $0 $1) that is in the editor means "if condition flag 01 is set". Thus, Yang's reaction script is "If condition flag 01 is set and attacked by Paladin Cecil: show battle message 0x12 and cast 0xAE." So the attack sequence needs to be played out once, condition flag 01 is set, and then as soon as Paladin Cecil attacks after that, Yang says, "Ouch!" and the battle is over.
My guess is that Odin's battle follows these lines, though I haven't looked into his script myself yet. I'll take a look when I have time.
Yes, it works, but see the flag is set randomly or is dependant on some RNG based event.
So, if you ever tried using Cecil to attack Yang, you see there's no fixed number of hits required to be made, or "scheduled" timing of sorts.
Oh, and here's some obligatory pics!
First message that was supposed to be displayed: (http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5594/finalfantasyiiuv1000020nl3.th.png) (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyiiuv1000020nl3.png)
Then Yang whacks you... with a Dark Sword... looks almost like the Deathbringer blade: (http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/804/finalfantasyiiuv1000021sg5.th.png) (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyiiuv1000021sg5.png)
Here's another message that was supposed to be displayed: (http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3151/finalfantasyiiuv1000022vc4.th.png) (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyiiuv1000022vc4.png)
Pics taken from FF2.
Note that my original theory of a battle with Anna blocking arrows for Edward is not farfetched.. it was simply not ever completed though but probably much more doable if we can tweak the characters a bit and filled in the missing code.
Edit: Yang was never meant to use the weapon, but since animations are not character dependant, it makes a ton of sense that what you see is not strange.
Here's some obligatory FF4 pics (using J2e's patch):
He was supposed to say this: (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4821/finalfantasyivj00059vj3.th.png) (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyivj00059vj3.png)
It would've been nice seeing these messages: (http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7151/finalfantasyivj00060wh1.th.png) (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyivj00060wh1.png)
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 02, 2008, 07:51:47 AM
3) Yang was meant to be encountered in a different situation.. which is not what the current finished product happens to be. For all I know, you were meant to battle him and he meant to attack Cecil intentionally. Perhaps the demo picture with Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Yang, Rosa, and Young Rydia may have had its origins be validated.
I had a pretty simple theory for that screenshot, Kain joined prior to the battle of Fabul, Rosa and Rydia never left the party, and from there it would carry out like normal with Kain betraying you once you got to the crystal room. Rydia could also learn level 2 elementals at that point in development.
Edit: Cecil's lines in that battle are kind of redundant, considering he says almost the same thing before the battle starts.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 07:54:39 AM
very cool to see that that picture might actually have been legitimate. i'm glad i put it up there. what are messages 0xE and 0x10? the ones while fighting yang in baron?
how did you create that scenario? dk cecil and kain in the desert with yang? make baron yang a random battle in the desert?
so, if the yang from baron who attacks you got into a fight with dk cecil, that part of the script would trigger and he'd start attacking with a dark sword?
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 07:55:21 AM
3) Yang was meant to be encountered in a different situation.. which is not what the current finished product happens to be. For all I know, you were meant to battle him and he meant to attack Cecil intentionally. Perhaps the demo picture with Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Yang, Rosa, and Young Rydia may have had its origins be validated.
I had a pretty simple theory for that screenshot, Kain joined prior to the battle of Fabul, Rosa and Rydia never left the party, and from there it would carry out like normal with Kain betraying you once you got to the crystal room. Rydia could also learn level 2 elementals at that point in development.
Probably, but that wouldn't explain the useless Prince Edward. :tongue:
Quote
Edit: Cecil's lines in that battle are kind of redundant, considering he says the same thing before the battle starts.
Well, yes, but the script would've normally accomodated that fact, but it makes no tangible difference.
how did you create that scenario? dk cecil and kain in the desert with yang? make baron yang a random battle in the desert?
There's a set of monster encounter codes on Gamefaqs: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/522596/29355
Quote
so, if the yang from baron who attacks you got into a fight with dk cecil, that part of the script would trigger and he'd start attacking with a dark sword?
Yes. The Dark Sword was probably meant for the Dark Knight Cecil vs Paladin Cecil battle, but was never implemented in the battle script.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Phoenix on June 02, 2008, 07:57:45 AM
Quote
Yes, it works, but see the flag is set randomly or is dependant on some RNG based event. So, if you ever tried using Cecil to attack Yang, you see there's no fixed number of hits required to be made, or "scheduled" timing of sorts.
I did six tests in a row before I posted, and every single one of them worked exactly as I described. The battle should end any time Paladin Cecil attacks Yang after he says "ACHOOOOO" and performs a Kick. Are you sure it's not working this way? What version are you testing? Perhaps his battle script was changed for FF2us.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 07:59:24 AM
I had a pretty simple theory for that screenshot, Kain joined prior to the battle of Fabul, Rosa and Rydia never left the party, and from there it would carry out like normal with Kain betraying you once you got to the crystal room. Rydia could also learn level 2 elementals at that point in development.
Edit: Cecil's lines in that battle are kind of redundant, considering he says almost the same thing before the battle starts.
where does edward fall in this, then?
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 08:00:50 AM
Yes, it works, but see the flag is set randomly or is dependant on some RNG based event. So, if you ever tried using Cecil to attack Yang, you see there's no fixed number of hits required to be made, or "scheduled" timing of sorts.
I did six tests in a row before I posted, and every single one of them worked exactly as I described. The battle should end any time Paladin Cecil attacks Yang after he says "ACHOOOOO" and performs a Kick. Are you sure it's not working this way? What version are you testing? Perhaps his battle script was changed for FF2us.
Ah.. ok. Hmm, I've never noticed that. I guess something similar happens with Odin too, but it's not clear to me when that's initiated. It is worth looking into for sure.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 02, 2008, 08:01:14 AM
Probably, but that wouldn't explain the useless Prince Edward. :tongue:
Bah, it's Edward, he probably ran off the second he heard there'd be loud noises. :tongue:
Seriously though, it's more likely that screenshot is at Fabul than anywhere else, just consider the monsters present, those aren't in the battle now but they're encountered just before it, on Mt. Hobs. I can't explain why Edward's not there but Kain joining before the battle starts makes some amount of sense.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 08:01:50 AM
Quote
Yes. The Dark Sword was probably meant for the Dark Knight Cecil vs Paladin Cecil battle, but was never implemented in the battle script.
so, was that part of the battle script misplaced? was it supposed to be from the (former) dk. cecil? and ended up with yang by mistake?
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 08:02:49 AM
Probably, but that wouldn't explain the useless Prince Edward. :tongue:
Bah, it's Edward, he probably ran off the second he heard there'd be loud noises. :tongue:
Seriously though, it's more likely that screenshot is at Fabul than anywhere else, just consider the monsters present, those aren't in the battle now but they're encountered just before it, on Mt. Hobs.
the gargoyle is, no? it's just alone in the game.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 02, 2008, 08:03:59 AM
Yeah, you fight a single gargoyle formation. By the way, I added a bit to my post above.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 08:06:55 AM
Probably, but that wouldn't explain the useless Prince Edward. :tongue:
Bah, it's Edward, he probably ran off the second he heard there'd be loud noises. :tongue:
Seriously though, it's more likely that screenshot is at Fabul than anywhere else, just consider the monsters present, those aren't in the battle now but they're encountered just before it, on Mt. Hobs. I can't explain why Edward's not there but Kain joining before the battle starts makes some amount of sense.
Maybe because he's royalty he took refuge with the king? The king did know him.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 08:11:18 AM
Probably, but that wouldn't explain the useless Prince Edward. :tongue:
Bah, it's Edward, he probably ran off the second he heard there'd be loud noises. :tongue:
Seriously though, it's more likely that screenshot is at Fabul than anywhere else, just consider the monsters present, those aren't in the battle now but they're encountered just before it, on Mt. Hobs. I can't explain why Edward's not there but Kain joining before the battle starts makes some amount of sense.
My sarcasm is directed towards the craptacular Edward. His role is a little longer than originally intended (at least from what I understand up to this point) given what is known now..
Maybe because he's royalty he took refuge with the king? The king did know him.
Yeah, that's a pretty good theory. It'd be great to find a prototype of this game, with all that supposedly got cut during development it would be very interesting to dig through and see what's different. Then again, the same could be said for all the Final Fantasy games, I'd love to get my hands on that FF6 prototype with Biggs and Wedge named Leo and Banon.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 08:14:23 AM
Quote
No, I meant it was never used. I'm assuming that every character battle is using the Deathbringer... but that would needs some actual testing though.
Yeah, that's a pretty good theory. It'd be great to find a prototype of this game, with all that supposedly got cut during development it would be very interesting to dig through and see what's different. Then again, the same could be said for all the Final Fantasy games, I'd love to get my hands on that FF6 prototype with Biggs and Wedge named Leo and Banon.
waaait, what? a prototype like that actually exists? where?
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 02, 2008, 08:20:17 AM
waaait, what? a prototype like that actually exists? where?
Just a couple screenshots in a magazine, as I already said Biggs and Wedge were named Leo and Banon, and Maduin was frozen in ice instead of Tritoch. Unfortunately the only site I knew that had the scans is gone now, and the copies I had up on Dbi went down along with my old host.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 08:25:45 AM
waaait, what? a prototype like that actually exists? where?
Just a couple screenshots in a magazine, as I already said Biggs and Wedge were named Leo and Banon, and Maduin was frozen in ice instead of Tritoch. Unfortunately the only site I knew that had the scans is gone now, and the copies I had up on Dbi went down along with my old host.
I'm sure someone would be able to find it if asked. It would be an interesting story though.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 08:28:48 AM
waaait, what? a prototype like that actually exists? where?
Just a couple screenshots in a magazine, as I already said Biggs and Wedge were named Leo and Banon, and Maduin was frozen in ice instead of Tritoch. Unfortunately the only site I knew that had the scans is gone now, and the copies I had up on Dbi went down along with my old host.
well, since monday and tuesday are my weekend, i know what i'll be spending today doing.
nevermind, thanks.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 02, 2008, 08:29:09 AM
Found 'em, forgot he archived his site at another host:
Young Rydia: (http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8691/ff2beta00007or2.th.png) (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ff2beta00007or2.png)
Dark Knight Cecil: (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9752/ff2beta00008wg0.th.png) (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ff2beta00008wg0.png)
It's pretty conclusive. I couldn't do that with Edward (though I could try changing/switching his battle script, although it is an auto-battle)... but the result is most likely the same. The characters wield the Deathbringer.
i was thinking, did anyone actually verify that that's maduin? i only ask because, in the esper world, at least a few of them shared that sprite.
It actually seems more appropriate that it is her father... if I remember the Maduin mini-event correctly.
The pictures also show that the fight/attack command was available when the M-tek status is applied... though I think you could still do that in some hacked/glitchy/coded circumstance.. but still interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: bond697 on June 02, 2008, 08:51:57 AM
Quote
It actually seems more appropriate that it is her father... if I remember the Maduin mini-event correctly.
you're right, it does. i was gonna posit that maybe in the first cave it was originally her father that she meets, which is why she freaks out(well, reacts to the esper so strongly) at the beginning.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 02, 2008, 08:54:21 AM
i was thinking, did anyone actually verify that that's maduin? i only ask because, in the esper world, at least a few of them shared that sprite.
That's definitely Maduin, he's the only one that uses that sprite. That said, he could just be a placeholder, they may not have drawn the Tritoch sprite yet.
The pictures also show that the fight/attack command was available when the M-tek status is applied... though I think you could still do that in some hacked/glitchy/coded circumstance.. but still interesting nonetheless.
I had a Game Genie code that would do that, I believe it just applied the armor sprite without actually giving Magitek status. For all we know there may not have been a Magitek status at this point in development, the armor could have just been for show, or it could be what's giving them those high HP totals. I doubt that though, that's probably just for testing purposes.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 09:05:55 AM
Probably, but that wouldn't explain the useless Prince Edward. :tongue:
Bah, it's Edward, he probably ran off the second he heard there'd be loud noises. :tongue:
Seriously though, it's more likely that screenshot is at Fabul than anywhere else, just consider the monsters present, those aren't in the battle now but they're encountered just before it, on Mt. Hobs. I can't explain why Edward's not there but Kain joining before the battle starts makes some amount of sense.
As a point of reference, but those characters seem to be past level 20 or so (Cecil having 600HP is normal.. if you overleveled him to death, like that's at level 30 or so), implying a number of things that have happened before that event (although, the monster formation itself isn't really that hard, comparitively speaking). I wonder if they were trying to increase the battle challenge though.. because Edward is nearly hopeless before the battle @ Fabul (until I figured out the Dreamer Harp is actually a good weapon).
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 02, 2008, 09:18:02 AM
A little more about the FF6 shots I noticed before but forgot to mention in this topic, Tina already has her name and there's a "1" instead of a blank space when only one enemy is present.
Edit: About the FF4 shots, it's interesting that they actually bothered to use the left-handed attacking sprites for when the character is facing the party, although Kain is wrong. Shame they didn't do that for back attacks, would've been a nice detail.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 09:42:16 AM
A little more about the FF6 shots I noticed before but forgot to mention in this topic, Tina already has her name and there's a "1" instead of a blank space when only one enemy is present.
I think they got rid of it because it would have to be updated on monster death (most annoying via death by HP leak and/or Poison in FF4). FF4 had that issue... and FF5 completely omitted that, so I presume it's to be consistant with FF5.
Quote
Edit: About the FF4 shots, it's interesting that they actually bothered to use the left-handed attacking sprites for when the character is facing the party, although Kain is wrong. Shame they didn't do that for back attacks, would've been a nice detail.
Oversight perhaps? Remember that they are using the same weapon, so the result must simply be due to incompleteness, missing, or forgotten.. note that you never actually see any character physically attack you normally.. so it's not a big deal.. it was simply never worked out.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Phoenix on June 02, 2008, 08:28:55 PM
Quote
It's pretty conclusive. I couldn't do that with Edward (though I could try changing/switching his battle script, although it is an auto-battle)... but the result is most likely the same. The characters wield the Deathbringer.
I had had the same thought, so it's nice to have confirmation. It seems pretty hard-coded if that's the case, and might be difficult to find where to change it. We'll see when I get around to that.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 02, 2008, 08:36:34 PM
It's pretty conclusive. I couldn't do that with Edward (though I could try changing/switching his battle script, although it is an auto-battle)... but the result is most likely the same. The characters wield the Deathbringer.
I had had the same thought, so it's nice to have confirmation. It seems pretty hard-coded if that's the case, and might be difficult to find where to change it. We'll see when I get around to that.
I'd presume it's just a sort of omni-character profile that is used here (for all characters), and you would assume every character's attack/action profile (perhaps with restricted details like handedness). Though, I wouldn't know how they would look when they select magic though (enemy magic nonwithstanding with Young Rydia).. they seem to execute commands to the letter at the very least.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 04, 2008, 03:46:11 PM
Here's a reference pic with the Death/Deathbringer Sword: (http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7655/finalfantasyivj00063zs8.th.png) (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyivj00063zs8.png)
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on September 09, 2008, 10:22:40 PM
:bump:
I completely forgot to mention this but they fixed Yang's script in the DS version, paladin Cecil says his two lines but Yang kicks in between instead of attacking.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on September 26, 2012, 03:58:13 PM
Recorded a video of this for The Cutting Room Floor:
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Grimoire LD on September 26, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
Cutting Room Floor is always an interesting place. Good video and interesting to see it in action. Though I'm curious now... does the game look at the Black Sword's graphics? Or does it draw this data from elsewhere? Also do you plan on doing this for the heavily unused Cagnazzo battle sequence?
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on September 26, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
He sort of uses the Deathbringer's graphics. It reads the sprite and palette, but not the swing (still appears behind him mirrored like a sword) or sound, and characters never have the impact drawn on them, so it doesn't use that either.
I completely forgot about Cagnazzo; mind posting a link for what is unused?
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Grimoire LD on September 26, 2012, 04:51:09 PM
Bah, sorry. Thought it was substantial. Apparently all it is is a ?bugged? sequence where he doesn't gain 3 Defense when he goes into his Shell mode. I thought I had read somewhere about a completely unused sequence but now I can't find it, if there ever was one.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 26, 2012, 05:37:28 PM
I wrote some stuff about Cagnazzo about his shell mode.
3 is the defensive value of the index that the stats are based off of. It's not the actual index. To be frank, I think defense is actually set (the value of 3), but the post wasn't about that.
Some background: There is an index of data that is used to set the parameters of monster attributes. There are 3 bytes each I think. These are used for assigning three aspects of the monsters. Attack, Defense, and Magic Defense. For example, let's use the Kainazzo (Cagnazzo) in FF2US v1.0 data through an FF4 editor: Attack: 0x16 = 3x44 @ 99% Defense: 0x77 = 2x2 @ 50% Magic Def: 0xDA = 10x48 @ 50% 1st byte = Multiplier 2nd byte = Actual Value 3rd byte = Effectiveness For Attack, this means, the monster can produce up to 3 hits, with 44 attack power, with an accuracy of 99% For Defense, this means, the monster can evade up to 2 hits, with 2 defense, with an evasion rate of 50%. Note: Evasion is NOT factored in unless you use a script to SET the defense. 255 Defense = immune to all physical attacks (doesn't include Throw since it isn't a physical attack, Jump and Power however are) Monsters in general have NO evasion. For Magic D, this means, the monster can magically evade up to 10 hits, with 48 magic defense, with a magic evasion rate of 50% Note: Magic evasion is never factored in I believe. 255 Magic Defense = immune to all magic. IIRC, Magic evasion is never a factor for monsters, so it's an irrelevant stat.
The point of the info was that in some of the bugged versions of FF4A, the defensive set in the script is not done or is executed/enforced correctly.
In the script (when going into shell mode - the mode that causes the monster to heal itself), it sets defense to index 0x7A. This would produce a monster with the defense of evading @ most 3 hits, with 3 defense, and has a chance to evade @ 70%. If you have ever hit that side of the script with a low level Cecil, you will find him to do pitiful damage against Cagnazzo. The script works as intended as far as I can tell (unless you get Cecil to dish out 4 hits @ minimum).
Hopefully, that clears things up.
:edit: Clarification on the part of the script that causes the changes.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Grimoire LD on September 26, 2012, 06:26:29 PM
Thanks for the explanation. I recall someone had started a solo Cecil challenge and quit when they reached Cagnazzo because Cecil couldn't hurt him enough and his Recover healed too much HP for him to get through. I wonder if it was also reducing damage?
Though don't enemies use Magic Evasion when it comes to status ailments? Or does it only look at the caster's Wisdom/Will for that?
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 26, 2012, 09:28:34 PM
Thanks for the explanation. I recall someone had started a solo Cecil challenge and quit when they reached Cagnazzo because Cecil couldn't hurt him enough and his Recover healed too much HP for him to get through. I wonder if it was also reducing damage?
Setting the new defense value in the script does actually reduce damage. Think of it like the Valvalis/Barbariccia battle. Same idea, except Cagnazzo stays with those stats forever (the new defense stat does not ever revert script-wise, unlike Barbariccia).
It's actually worth checking out how that works with a Beastiary type code (forcing the battle for your own testing amusment).
Quote
Though don't enemies use Magic Evasion when it comes to status ailments? Or does it only look at the caster's Wisdom/Will for that?
Status ailments depend on the property that is applied to it. Bio/Virus's HP leak property is not blockable, but if you have enough magic evasion, the HP leak property is a non-issue... unless it is multi-targeted (Zeromus). Spells like Toad/Mini is tested against Magic Evasion (assuming you have a minimum of multiplier of 1), however you have to check its hit rate/accuracy through its base accuracy (Toad/Mini has 50) and appropriate stat (Toad for Wisdom, Mini for Will)
Hit Rate = 50 + (Wis or Will)/2
Spells like Venom tend to apply the damage+status (status is not applied if resistant), but there are issues with that with the various versions of FF4.
Monster spells (usually towards the bottom of the spell list) simply check for status resistance before applying them... the hit rate value is ignored altogether.
Monsters never have magic evasion, so it works or it doesn't, depending on the spell and status ailment.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Grimoire LD on September 26, 2012, 09:44:47 PM
I see... I guess I never noticed that, I thought I had seen a couple of normal spells miss in FFIV. Maybe not then? So that's how status spells work... it just looks at an accuracy, applies it That many times and if it fails every time it fails and if it succeeds obviously the status is applied. I'm not sure that was the best way for them to go about it, but eh. Most people never look at the worth of Status effects anyhow.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 26, 2012, 10:43:44 PM
Actually, status spells are tested once... they always use a spell multiplier of 1 unless it is an attack spell like Bio or Venom. I call it the solo multiplier, because it is also used for the magic evasion multiplier as well (unless, you are Cecil/Yang/Cid that tends to have a magic evasion multiplier of 0).
I already posted a document on Gamefaqs with a relatively complete Algo FAQ and a separate spell doc.
Title: Re: Yang's Battle Script
Post by: Grimoire LD on September 26, 2012, 11:05:42 PM
There's a lot in there, I should probably give it a look over. I would love to actually look at the battle system in FFIV, but unfortunately the SNES Geiger Debugger is glitched and doesn't let you view or breakpoint on anything in the 2000-9000 Range, for whatever reason of the data. And wouldn't you know it? The battle system is basically in the 4000's.